Prepared by Nigel Patterson (July 2006)

Continuing our controversial series of articles comparing the impact of Elvis and The Beatles, in this article we present a tabular (matrix) comparison of the two musical-cultural icons plus supporting arguments/views. Our examination is based on a review of a cross-section of online and printed material about both artists.

(Reader feedback appears below)

The Matrix:

* writings on both artists were found to be rhetorical and quite general regarding their ongoing influence/legacy

**neither sales claim is currently verifiable

*** attitude is essentially comprised of 3 elements - what we: do, feel & think

**** both results contain non-subject results (Elvis results affected more due to results for "other Elvises" such as Elvis Costello and Elvis Crespo)

The supporting arguments/views:

Elvis:

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: Elvis Presley is the undisputed King of Rock and Roll. He rose from humble circumstances to launch the rock and roll revolution with his commanding voice and charismatic stage presence. In the words of the historical marker that stands outside the house where he was born: "Presley's career as a singer and entertainer redefined popular music."

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: As far as his stature as a cultural icon, which continues to grow even in death, writer Lester Bangs said it best: "I can guarantee you one thing - we will never again agree on anything as we agreed on Elvis."

Leonard Bernstein: "Elvis Presley is the greatest cultural force in the 20th century."

John Lennon: "Before Elvis there was nothing"

John Lennon: "Without Elvis there would not have been The Beatles"

Mick Jagger: "No-one, but no-one, is his equal, or ever will be. He was, and is supreme"

Greil Marcus, rock critic & historian: "He is the "Big Bang", and the universe he detonated is still expanding, the pieces are still flying"

Publishers Weekly: Elvis was "influenced by the products of a national mass culture" until he became one of that culture's greatest icons while creating a sound that wove together various strains of music from Southern whites and blacks

The Beatles:

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: The impact of the Beatles upon popular music cannot be overstated; they revolutionized the music industry and touched the lives of all who heard them in deep and fundamental ways. Landing on these shores on February 7, 1964, they literally stood the world of pop culture on its head, setting the musical agenda for the remainder of the decade. The Beatles' buoyant melodies, playful personalities and mop-topped charisma were just the tonic needed by a nation left reeling by the senseless assassination of its young president, John F. Kennedy, barely two months earlier. Even adults typically given to scorning rock and roll as worthless "kid's stuff" were forced to concede that there was substance in their music and quick-witted cleverness in their repartee. Without exaggeration, they transfixed and transformed the world as we knew it, ushering in a demographic shift in which youth culture assertively took over from its stodgy Eisenhower-era forbears.

Wikipedia: Although Elvis Presley used the medium of television in the 1950s in America to attract a wider audience (rather than just performing live or being heard on the radio) The Beatles had the advantage of being seen in the USA as well as on British TV in the early sixties, just as the sale of television sets increased dramatically (although only in black & white). Their influence on the medium of TV - and its rising importance - paved the way for presenters of programmes to utilise their fame, and performers/actors to include references to The Beatles in their own writing.

Tony Copple, Beatles historian: Not only did the Beatles reflect their times by being ahead of their time, but also they influenced a generation of people who were in their impressionable years in the sixties. They showed a form of unconscious leadership, by debunking stuffy class-related attitudes and replacing them by a delightful irreverence and spontaneity that for the most part has not dated.

Tony Copple, Beatles historian: We can now identify changes in behaviour, attitudes, and performance on record, stage and film which were pioneered by the group. We tend to forget now, but if those of you who were around then think back to each new album, new film, new tour, they all introduced concepts that had not previously been tried. For example, the Shea Stadium concert in 1965 was the first* music event in a sports arena. Innovation came naturally to the Beatles and they had the guts and the stature to be different, every time.

* Not true. Elvis played several sports stadiums in the 1950s including the Empire Stadium in Vancouver on 31 August 1957

Verdict: The Beatles 'ongoing' impact is largely musical. Certainly they influenced clothing and hairstyles in the 1960s but there is no apparent legacy in this regard today. They had the advantage of being at the center of a highly popular mass media which recorded their undoubted greatness.

Comparatively, Elvis' ongoing legacy traverses musical, style and socio-cultural boundaries. His music "opened the doors" to both a musical revolution and youth culture, facilitating The Beatles. His style (clothing, hairstyle & performance style) continues to influence today. The regular reference to Elvis in contemporary culture and the continuing popularity of a large number of ETAs symbolises Elvis' lasting impact. Had the mass media been as evolved as it was in the mid 1960s, there would be a much greater recognised and accessible record of the Elvis phenomenon in the incredible days of Elvis/Presleymania.

The fact that both artists are the subject of major productions by Cirque du Soleil (itself a phenomenon), speaks reams for at least their musical importance in contemporary society.

Click to comment on this article

Breaking down Presley and Beatlemania: In a very stimulating commentary, likethebike presents his case for Presleymania and Beatlemania. EIN recommends this very thoughtful and cogent commentary to all readers. With themes including sexual tension, civil rights, backlash by society's cultural arbiters, r&b integration and realising the American dream.......this is a powerful exposition!

John Lennon And Elvis: It was "Thirty Years Ago Today" - On December 8th 1980 John Lennon was shot dead outside his New York apartment. In commemoration, LA Times music critic Robert Hilburn remembers discussions with John Lennon about life and Elvis... >> In mid 1980 John Lennon raced into Yoko Ono's home office in the mammoth old Dakota building with a copy of Donna Summer's new single, "The Wanderer." "Listen!" Lennon shouted as he put the 45rpm on the record player. "She's doing Elvis!" I didn't know what he was talking about at first. The arrangement felt more like rock than the singer's usual electro-disco approach, but the opening vocal sure sounded like Donna Summer to me. Midway through the song, however, her voice shifted into the playful, hiccuping style Elvis had used on so many of his early recordings. "See! See!" John shouted, pointing at the speakers "That's Elvis!" Lennon plugged in one of his prized possessions a vintage jukebox. He then punched one Elvis Presley record after another and bopped around playfully.

Read EIN's set of articles on "Elvis' record sales" and "Elvis vs. The Beatles":

John Lennon And Elvis: It was "Thirty Years Ago Today" - On December 8th 1980 John Lennon was shot dead outside his New York apartment. In commemoration, LA Times music critic Robert Hilburn remembers discussions with John Lennon about life and Elvis...

John Lennon And Elvis - 2010 - On December 8th 1980 John Lennon was shot dead outside his New York apartment. Robert Hilburn remembers discussions with John Lennon about life and Elvis...

'Elvis Meets The Beatles' 2010

Larry Geller talks about Elvis and The Beatles meet-up in 1965

Elvis artefact on display in Liverpool Beatles Exhibition 2010: 

Breaking down Presley and Beatlemania (2007)

Why can't Elvis compete...against the Beatles and Garth Brooks? (2007)

Ernst & Roger's persuasive argument for Elvis

Controversial university study incenses Elvis fans (published 2006)

Elvis vs. The Beatles - The Matrix Argument (2006)

Paul McCartney talks about Heartbreak Hotel (2005)

Was there anything before Elvis? (2005)

Elvis vs. The Beatles - Nigel eats humble pie (2004)

Elvis vs The Beatles (Part 1) (2004)

World Title Fight - Elvis vs. The Beatles (2002)

Elvis or Beatles?

Elvis Lacks Credibility

Feedback

Colin B (UK): That made an interesting read.

Looking at their respective achievements side-by-side like that, it's so obvious that Elvis was the more important.

Pity we don't have any fervent Beatles fans or experts on here to put their case [choke].

Denman (Holland): Interesting.

Anfield: Nice article.

Bryan Stuart (USA): Good article!

Sharon: I think this is a reall well thought out article - but just one point - when it says the Beatles created the 4 peice band - this always irritates me in a way - because Elvis, Scotty, Bill and DJ were in essence a 4 peice band at the beginning but have never been given due credit for it.

Mark Holliday (USA): Excellent article...great points on both sides. Thanks for the link and the post.

Ian Anderson: That was a great read,thank's a lot!

Mr Majestyk: Quite a good piece and interesting into the bargain, but that's only two sides to the pop music coin i.e. there were artists before Elvis that sang to a youth audience, the album was gaining popularity before The Beatles came on the scene, some of which (pre-Beatles) remain the most successfull albums ever chart-wise despite a smaller chart.

The death of John Lennon wasn't as marked as Elvis' death, but to me it's the Elvis caricature that dominates on august 16th, not the artist - maybe Lennon fans (myself included) should be thankful that the cirus that is Graceland has no Beatles equivalent, although some Lennon?Beatles fans are guilty of needing to get a life as some Elvis fans. But just for reference, how many Lennon/Beatles and casual music fans see the tribute to John Lennon in New York's Central Park each year? More than the amount that visitys Graceland? I'll bet.

"Elvis broke down the barriers to males having long hair" Dean, Brando and Tony Curtis had similar hairstyles before Elvis made it big, their hairstyles influenced Elvis. Elvis established the artist as a brand - in what way? Were no singers before Elvis "branded" in a similar way?

Cultural references to Elvis are a-plenty, but The Beatles are no less culturally prevailant, but again, more so for their music, not the caricature, as in Elvis' case.

The replacement of "Mom and Dad" music on the chart was mostly attributed to Elvis - yes, in some ways, in some ways not, becaus plenty of pre-rock and non-rock acts charted extremely well during rock 'n' roll's golden years.

"Elvis has assumed prominance as a religious type identity" It's this kind of worshipping by fans who are basically zealots that has given Elvis a lot of bad press. Elvis' films undegoing an academic investigation---doesn't take a genius to pick out any social commentaries in Elvis' films or note recurring themes, considering how poorly made most of them were. Elvis never acted in a masterpiece or made a genuine classic, and despite The Beatles making less films, there are probably more influential and have had a lasting appeal despite being products of their time. Re-releases have done well up until this decade for Beatles films.

Joe Walsh (Ireland): To be honest I have no time for the beatles, or manufactured pop in general, whether it be the everly brothers, the beatles, or westlife.

If you love the beatles don't read the rest of my post......

At a quick glance:

beatles have not sold over 1 billion, no official claim has been made to that affect. It is pure fantasy. The claim is that they have sold 1 billiuon single equivalents. It is just a "make up" statistic.

This "part of the move to singer songwriters" is rubbish. There have always been singer song writers, millions of them.

"Growth of yoputh culture attributed to the beatles". Total rubbish. There has been youth culture since Adam was a boy, except then they didn't use condoms. beatles were not part of the 60's revolutionary youth culture, in fact they were the opposite. They were initialy promoted by parents, teachers, media etc. as they were the opposite of what was happening in popular music. They had a younger audience, including pre-teens, until the late 60's. They were part of the establishment and only got on the "left wing caring for fellow man" band wagon as they grew older. Remember there primary reason for moving from the UK to the US was because of the lower income tax, and the expectation that taxes might increase in the UK. No great social conscience there.

The comparison fails to mention that Elvis brought Mega Stardom to a new level, that Elvis has more fan clubs than any other artist.

Marilyn Jones (UK): I enjoyed your article.

Peter Barnes: I like both Elvis and the Beatles. I don't think you can compare a solo artist with a group.

HowardBrent: I wouldn’t say that I was a fan of The Beatles in the conventional sense of the word, although I do have 6 or 7 of their albums.

However, there does seem to be this certain stigma about criticising their later work and their films. If you actually watch their films, they were no better or worse than any of EP’s mid-60s output in terms of plot/acting. Their only saving grace was the quality of the music; whereas EP’s films in the 60s were almost completely void of any decent songs.

As for being a ‘manufactured’ band, there’s no denying they were told to ‘clean up’ their image – to get away from the rock n roll, leather jacketed look and get suited and booted, so that they would appeal to all and sundry. That said, there’s no denying the immense talent of the band.

The Beatles were, and will always be, the greatest band in the world, regardless of whether you like them or not. To deny them this, would be just as bad as denying Elvis the status of being the greatest, most influential solo artist we have seen or are ever likely to see.

John Shutts: Elvis was 1, Beatles needed 4. Nothing more needs saying.

Quote:

"Elvis Presley is the supreme socio-cultural icon in the history of pop culture"

(Dr. Gary Enders)

Quote:

"Elvis is the 'glue' which holds our society together....which subconciously gives our world meaning"

(Anonymous)

Quote:

"Eventually everybody has to die, except Elvis"

(humorist Dave Barry)

Quote:

"He is the "Big Bang", and the universe he detonated is still expanding, the pieces are still flying"

(Greil Marcus, "Dead Elvis")

Quote:

"I think Elvis Presley will never be solved"

(Nick Tosches)

Quote:

"He was the most popular man that ever walked on this planet since Christ himself was here"

(Carl Perkins)

Quote:

"When I first heard Elvis' voice I just knew I wasn't going to work for anybody...hearing him for the first time was like busting out of jail"

(Bob Dylan)

Quote:

"When we were kids growing up in Liverpool, all we ever wanted was to be Elvis Presley"

(Sir Paul McCartney)

Quote:

"You can't say enough good things about Elvis. He was one of a kind"

(Johnny Cash)

Quote:

"And don't think for one moment he's just a passing fancy....he's got enough of it to keep him on top for a long time"

(R. Fred Arnold, Fury magazine, Aug 1957)

Quote:

"It isn't enough to say that Elvis is kind to his parents, sends money home, and is the same unspoiled kid he was before all the commotion began. That still isn't a free ticket to behave like a sex maniac in public"

(Eddie Condon, Cosmopolitan)

Elvis records reaching #2 & #3 on the Cashbox Pop Singles chart:

#2: A Fool Such As I (1959)

#2: A Big Hunk Of Love (1959)

#3: Hard Headed Woman (1958)

#3: One Night (1958)

#3: (You're The Devil) In Disguise (1963)

Elvis Facts:

Tickets for Elvis' show on March 29, 1957 in St. Louis cost $2.00 to $2.50

While in Germany Elvis was hospitalised with tonsillitis in October 1959

Despite being an illegal immigrant, photographic evidence shows Colonel Tom Parker traveled to Canada with Elvis in 1957

Elvis strongly believed there weren't enough good songs in King Creole to justify releasing a soundtrack album. RCA initially agreed, releasing two very successful EPs from the movie. A soundtrack LP eventually followed

During the 1960s Elvis had his own football team, Elvis Presley Enterprises, which played in the Memphis touch football league. In the 1962 final, EPE narrowly lost to Delta Automatic Transmission, 6-13

In Clambake, (Elvis) Scott Hayward's driving licence shows February 23, 1940...taking 5 years off Elvis' real age

In the 1970s Elvis was offered $5m to stage a concert in front of the Pyramids in Egypt. When the Colonel declined the offer, Saudi billionaires raised the offer to $10m